Early May of this year, Boston transfers and now Nashville-based band Pile, released their third album (7 releases in total), the cathartic and still melodic Green and Gray, through Exploding In Sound. The band, commanded by Rick Maguire, has been exploring musical dynamics since its beginning in 2007 as Rick’s solo project. Pile boasts between the rowdy and the inhibited across a line of unconditional support from fans and the need for an outlet. This outlet serves as the underbelly of the emotionally charged and distinguished sound of the Maguire’s outbursts. The songs on the album, in light of our current political climate and Maguire’s most current life changes, correspond to a dynamic response of the singer to life itself. And although this interview was conducted while they were touring in New York, back in May, the feeling is still there. Palpable even throughout their most recent video release for “Firewood”. Pile’s Green and Gray showcases harmoniously the uncertainty and curiosity that comes with life as a musician in this day and age. Read the conversation with Rick below.
You were saying tour hasn’t been rowdy?
In the past, specially getting back up to this region of the country, people have had more of the tendency to push each other around and all that, but it hasn’t happened as much. At first it was like I don’t know if people are really [having] all that good of a time because that’s really an easy way to tell, but we’re also playing some really really quiet stuff and during those parts people are still in the room and they’re either totally silent or telling the person next to them to be quiet. So that’s been great that everyone’s been that engaged and ideally, it’s captivating. Like the people are there and they want to be there, and I don’t know maybe it’s also because that the people that have been listening to us are just older now and don’t want to run into each other anymore. I feel like it’s a different show even though there are some of the same songs, we are playing mostly the new record and it is still us as a band, there hasn’t been that much that is drastically changed. I just feel like there’s a much more attentive feel to it. Not that people weren’t paying attention before, but it seems like it was more about this, people would use it as their time to sort of let their own stuff out. Dancing around or whatever.
There’s still some sort of expectancy when they come, and they really want to listen to what you’re putting out there.
Yeah. We’ve been traveling with a front of house engineer for the first time, so there’s been more of a focus to get this to sound as good as it can each night. And that’s been really nice, to focus on that. I feel like that hasn’t been as much of a focus in the past. It’s more just make sure that the energy is there and that’s that, but to focus on fine tuning everything… a friend of mine was like, “Yeah it was great to see you guys sounding good. I feel like the last couple of times it sounded really bad.” And you know I was like, I have no idea, because what I’m experiencing up there is totally different to what’s going out. It is exciting when you just sort of have to act on the fly with sound stuff, like adjusting amps and everything, and that’s exciting but for an audience it doesn’t always do the same thing. Something to be said for just making sure you’re in control of what you’re doing instead of just always having to tweak stuff based on how you feel up there.
With the longevity of the band, more than 10 years, 7 albums, you get to a point to a certain energy and feeding from people rather than being sonically correct. Or like how different it is to play a club or a dive spot. You still need to keep the same quality, I guess.
It really is contingent upon a number of things, and we want to be consistent in that we’re always playing at the edge of our ability and with as much energy and attentiveness as we can. Difference spots call for different things, we play a spot in D.C. called Songbyrd and there’s like a pillar in the middle of the stage and a back set area to the stage right, and that’s the only place the drums can go. So, the drummer is like in a corner, and it’s just three of us lined up, you know — guitar, bass, guitar —just being, “Alright, I guess this is what we’re working with tonight.” And I am so used to being close to Chris, the drummer, and kind of feeding off what he’s doing. It was very strange, but it’s just learning to adjust to that sort of step as opposed to a place like this (Music Hall of Williamsburg), which is like so satisfying. The monitors are just so good, and I feel like the room sounds good. We’ve been excited for this show for a while too. I moved from Boston to Tennessee and now we left from Nashville, and we just looped our way back up into familiar territory.
You started the band by yourself, and the you gathered this group of musicians that were with you until very recently. Basically, you lost a guitar player and a bass player. Chris has been with you and that’s a relationship that’s still going. Were the departures amicable?
Yeah. Matt Becker, in 2010 he had his first kid. He had been always there writing stuff with us. In 2010 we put out ‘Magic Isn’t Real’ and that was also when his son was born. He found out in November of 2009, like “I’m going to be a dad!” and I said, “When is the due date” and he said late August, so I went I guess we should record in July. He had to leave for a bit, and then Matt Connery filled his spot and we were a three piece. And then I think it was about 2011, maybe end of 2010 that Matt Becker was like “I want to be back in the band.” Ok, well maybe we just add a second guitar and that’s been the band. From that point forward, it had been Matt Connery on bass, Matt Becker on guitar but we had a bunch of certain guitarists fill in and everything. And then there came a point were Becker was like, “I’m done,” and at that time Chappy was staying at my house, with Chris and I. When I got that phone call Chappy (Hull) was there and I was like, “Do you want to be in the band?” He lives in Nashville, but he’s a great player and I felt he would’ve pick up on the stuff, so he was down. This past year I went on a solo tour, supporting Titus Andronicus and Alex (Molini) was playing for Patrick (Stickles) at the time. He was just doing that tour with him. And then I, on that tour, Matt Connery told me I just don’t want to tour anymore, so I asked Alex, “Do you want to be in the band?” It was very…not “who is around?” because there’s a lot of consideration that went into it, and they’re awesome people and awesome players. But it’s been really great since.
You think it comes full circle to almost lose a whole band after 6 albums, to come back and build up what Pile is while you being the main songwriter.
It’s sort of been the understanding with all the people that I play with. I want to be a reasonable person too. If something is not working, we can all hear it like I am not going to hang onto that just for the sake of my ego. It’s like, yeah, I want the songs to be good but I also really want to have the freedom to be able to play with these ideas as much as I want. And luckily, at the infancy of the band there were people that I was playing with that were in the band for a very short time that wanted it to be more of a collaborative thing. When I’d tried it, it was like, you know I started it as a solo thing, and I don’t want to start another solo thing. I want to make sure that I feel comfortable doing this, and that’s the understanding. But I also know that the people that I am playing with are great, creative minds and their advice and input is very valuable. And I’m also wrong sometimes, and that’s a good dynamic. They give me freedom to sort of just do the things that I want but I realize that I am very lucky to be able to play with people that are so smart and creative and just able.
Did you started writing after the departure of the two Matt’s for Green and Gray or was that something that started happening while they were in the band?
I feel like there’s always like an overlap where it sort of keeps going. The first song on Green and Gray, I probably started writing two years ago (2017). It just took a long time to write. Them leaving the band ended up shaping sort of how the record came together. Because I was like, if they leave and then I just changed it completely with new members, people are just going to make that association and I really don’t feel like having to deal with that. I decided this is just going to be another record, that sounds like us and sort of expands upon what we’ve done in the past. The next batch of stuff its going to be a lot more piano and mellower. I’m sure there will be people that don’t like it because its just how that goes. I feel like a drastic change needed to be held off until it was like lets get this settle with this new group of people.
Rather than just the impact of, “well, they left we’re doing something new. This is a new band.”
It’s been good to take time with that. And the recording process went really well. First time recording with either of them, it was a great experience.
You made the connection with the producer after you were doing your solo run with Titus.
I met Kevin (McMahon) actually, at Murmrr. He came out to the show, and he said, “Hey I like your stuff and it would be cool to work sometime,” and I went and visited him out at his studio. We just hung out for a little bit and it was great, it seemed like a really good energy both him and the place. I decided to do it. Now his band (Pelican Movement) is touring with us. We stayed at his spot, ‘cause it’s like barn that’s been converted into a studio, and we were there in December. That’s why the record is called Green and Gray. Just because it was in a very pastural setting upstate in New York, but everything was kinda frosting over. I took a couple of really nice walks, the golden hour in upstate New York is pretty awesome. I just like nature in general, it’s just nice to go out. I feel like we were able to get out enough that we didn’t go crazy, but we were definitely in it.
The album itself feels very personal and introspective about your relationship with time and age and even with our current political climate.
A lot of people draw a connection with it being about Donald Trump (“The Hands of Stephen Miller”) and like I guess it kind of is in a way. There’s a song called “Your Performance” were it talks about like a neon cartoon and people are “oh it’s Donald Trump,” but it’s more of the idea of what is wrong with people when they need to be on a stage and like have attention from people. Which he is clearly a narcissist. And I don’t know if I am a narcissist, because I choose to do this. Because I could just write songs for other people, but I’ve chosen to be like I’m going to be the one expressing it, and people to know that it’s me.
Has it changed the way you perceive yourself on stage with age?
It feels weirdly the same. I still feel, even though these shows are more well attended, I still feel I am allowed to feel strange or like I feel comfortable being strange.
Makes sense.
I wonder if I didn’t have that in my life how much more strange behavior would come out because I didn’t have an outlet like that, to do it in such a public forum. Because I have a theory that people who make really extreme music or really out their stuff, often they’re the kindest most well-rounded people because they have that outlet for their wildness to get out.
Like the cliche of this guy is in a hardcore band, he’s going to punch you in the face.
Right, like he’s a scary person. I just find that a lot. People who play in those brutal bands and then you actually talk to them, and they’re the most open, warm people.
It’s very attached to the performance and the way you present yourself in music and outside of that. How different are you in those spaces?
I’d say I’m pretty different. I try to be calm in real life. Which takes some work sometimes, personal work. And I feel like, whether is stuff that’s related to music or not I just feel like the stress that I end up putting myself through is not worth it. It’s a constant project, it’s like an ongoing project. On stage, I feel like maybe I am a little bit more tense and I get out some stuff. You know (laughs) there are times that I just sit on traffic and I scream because there’s just a lot of stuff going on, and I’m in traffic and I can’t fucking go anywhere and the scream sound very similar to the stuff that I do when I am on stage. There’s got to be some connection there.
That seems pretty intense.
Maybe it’s just me sort of working stress out in a way. I try to have it be as genuine up there. I’ve thought about that too, maybe it would be easier to be an act or to have a fake name or something like that. but I don’t think it would be, I think it would be more difficult for me.
Isn’t Pile the name chosen because you didn’t want to put your name out there?
I was like 19. I just thought of the songwriters that I listened to were Elliot Smith and Bob Dylan and stuff like that, and I was like “I don’t want to be just that!” I’d like to do louder stuff sometimes if I want to. I don’t mind if I am always the person attached to it and the name comes after, but I like to just be some other thing that it can sort of fall under. Like if you were the first to hear about it, you’d be like who is this person. It could be one person; it could be twenty. It was never really, at that age, shying away from it really because I still wanted it to be like my stuff.
It’s cool to have monikers too. Maybe you are this person and you’re also “Pile”
I’m also on that mode, too. I’m on tour, we just put out the record, so much of my life has been I am this, I am doing this. But maybe by the end of it, I’ll be like I don’t want to be this, I don’t know, just not do this, just not even think about it. I’m trying to think what I would even do… I take breaks from it, from being that thing. I don’t think about it all the time.
Just now thinking about it, what would that be…
The only two other things that I have thought about really pursuing is like a profession, which is like no way. In 2015, I was thinking about it… or 2016, I was like I should be an auto mechanic. We have so many issues with cars, and I feel I should know how stuff works.
And to build stuff, fix the toilet, so you don’t have to call anyone else…
I feel like I have access to it, so I should just figure it out and then sort of be the master of my own destiny. Specially if I could somehow put together a car that I could live in, that’s were my head is at this point too. ‘Cause I was living in our practice space and I quit my job and I was just playing music and it was a very freeing time. I was like, I don’t know what the rule book is for this, you know, it’s not a work your job, hangout with friends, and all that. I just tried to play as much as possible, lived in this windowless room… that was one. And then, I guess if I could really, if I could do it, I would try to train and play basketball overseas.
Shoot hoops!
Yeah!
Nice!
It would be awesome! I moved down to Nashville and I…
How long you’ve been there?
Not very long. I got there in February. My folks live down there and it’s been nice to see them a little bit more regularly. I live with Chappy and Alex, we have a house together and two other friends. And there’s space, which I’m not use to. We got a basketball hoop, and I’ve always loved playing basketball but the fact that I can do it everyday now is really something special. I can work on stuff in my room, whether is writing music or answering emails, or reading, whatever, all the stuff that I like doing which mostly is steadying down and just thinking. But when I start getting tired of it I just go outside and shoot hoops and it’s the best. I guess that would probably be it.
Is Bruxist Grin about anxiety?
It is.
What was going on?
I was showing my apartment to people, and there was a bunch of stuff with the record and all that. This person came over, and this person asked what we all did, and I realized I didn’t know what my roommates do. There was a lot of unknown, all the sudden with moving and this record. I’ve only lived in Massachusetts. I went to bed, and it didn’t hit me then, but I sort of looked back at what were the things that triggered this, so I was laying in bed and my heart starts racing. I can’t move. I think that I am panicking but it really felt like drugs. Like mushrooms or LSD, when it starts to come and I’m like, “Oh, now I feel it.” I knew all this stuff was happening, but that was a weird experience. I didn’t write it right there, but that was a unique experience to me. Cause I feel nervous and anxious all the time, but I’ve never had where it was an episode.
I was reading some articles about you guys, and I was laughing my ass off with all the stuff about Vampire Weekend, and how they are famous. Do you take into consideration being successful in your own way?
At this point I get it. I get the mechanism and the thing that I’ve choose to involve myself. I mean, we wouldn’t be playing a venue like here if I didn’t. The way that I’ve kind of seen it in the past is that I will and try to do everything until it becomes overwhelming and then I would find somebody who can do a better job than me. That’s what’s happening with the booking and stuff.
You do your own booking?
I used to. I stopped little over two years ago. It was around the time I was considering being an auto mechanic. I no longer wanted to suffer fools gladly. I was open to play any shows, but then when I realized that people weren’t paying attention to what they were doing, some are great, but some are this is the best. I couldn’t do it enough to have it be sustainable for me as much as I even wanted to do it. There’s times people be like, “can you play the show?” and I’m like sure, and then they I’d be like “why did I drive all the way out here for you to not really know what you’re doing?” So, there were some drawbacks and I don’t regret that experience of ten years of me figuring out how this type thing works. It’s been good, understanding that.
You have more time for the music.
It’s true. The past two records, those were the first two that I was able to, that when we were recording, I wasn’t booking the tour. All the records prior, my attention was divided. Maybe it will come a point where I finally hire a tour manager, but I haven’t felt comfortable enough yet to relinquish that control. The first week and a half of this tour I was so high strung. Anytime there wasn’t something that was like, ‘This is what it says, I know this’, cause that’s like the tour managers m.o., always ready. They’re just like ready to show their teeth.
“You said we were going to have fucking food!”
Exactly! I’m not there yet to be willing to do that (hire someone).
Sounds like you just like being in control.
I do.
That’s not bad.
It’s not so bad. Its also very healthy to know how to let go of that. in a way where you’re not passing the buck, but it’s fine. Someone else that I trust that’s in control of it. I really trust the band, so that’s great. And I trust Miranda who’s doing sound for us. I trust the label, that’s been really great. [Hiring a tour manager] it’s a hard thing to find. A hard point to get to emotionally, to go ‘I would let you do this. This is my livelihood.’ I guess I would say this is my life’s work at this point, to put somebody else in charge of that is… I’ll probably get there at some point.
If needed…
I got like a meditation app on my phone that has chill me out the past week or so, it’s been nice.
Got to keep your head straight.
That’s also why I stopped drinking and all that. I need to be sharp.
Are you sober?
I am. Except for coffee which probably isn’t helping the whole nerves thing.
Are you trying to be sober just for a while?
I think forever now. I decided after the last record we did, about three months into touring. And after that I just had a night at the bar just having a conversation with somebody and people kept interrupting me. I was at a show, and I just didn’t have the energy for it. If I was sober would’ve been able to deal with it, and I just bounced. The next morning, I was like I don’t want to be like this. It’s been really great.
Catch Pile live, this Friday, December 13 at (Le) Poisson Rouge. Follow Pile on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.
